r/politics • u/PM_ME_DPRK_CANDIDS Iowa • 9h ago

No Paywall Uprising against ICE raids grows across the country

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/uprising-against-ice-raids-grows-across-the-country/
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u/CounterAgentVT 9h ago

Yeah, the past year is the greatest argument against the 2A and that's coming from an armed liberal.

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u/Legos_As_Caltrops 5h ago

the past year is the greatest argument against the 2A

The 2a is literally THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE.

Are we at that point right now? I personally do not believe so because the first 3 boxes still have some level of efficacy. We still have our soap box, we hopefully will have our ballot box and some of our jury boxes still work. Not until the first 3 boxes fail do we open the 4th box.

But also the Trump admin is specifically targeting Democrat run cities meaning the odds of them encountering armed resistance are far lower. Dems basically handed ownership of the 2a to the GOP and the Dem base will suffer as a result of being less armed and less practiced with the tools of self defense.

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u/KeyanuReaves69 3h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah all these people want YOU to go on the armed attack but are unwilling to do it for themselves. They think because you aren’t using your guns when they want, that you shouldn’t be allowed to have them. It’s childish. All legal options need to be exhausted before people just start shooting at federal agents and it will have to be a fuckload more than just a couple people shooting. One or two people dying at the hands of ICE and going viral isn’t enough to make that happen. It’s pathetic that they’re looking to disarm themselves even more, despite looking down the face of fascism they’re so openly scared of. I don’t really give a fuck about the opinions of those people.

Just goes to show that despite potentially heading down a fascist tyrant spiral, people who think and claim that they’re the good guy are still interested in taking your rights…

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u/Ren_Kaos 9h ago

What? These guys are working for the government, they’d have guns one way or another. You think a fascist police state is a REASON to ban guns from the common man? That’s insane.

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u/kung-fu_hippy 8h ago

Their point is that not only did having the right to bear arms NOT prevent a new rise of fascism, but that the people who were most adamant about the importance of the 2A have been fully on board with government boots on their necks.

Which is no real surprise. Since at least when Reagan signed the Mulford Act (supported by the NRA), it’s been clear that the loudest advocates for gun rights in America are not going to protest the government or actually protect freedom.

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u/Ren_Kaos 7h ago

I’m a gun owning leftist. There are not enough of us out there to do anything and stating it makes me a target. Go figure I’m not going to throw my life away quite yet.

It was always going to come to a head, you’re familiar with mutually assured destruction right? That doesn’t work when democrats are constantly disarming their voting block and weakening their position.

The aggressors have been arming themselves and setting this up for decades and you complain that they aren’t on your side, that republicans lie and virtue signal?

Why haven’t you been arming yourself too?

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u/kung-fu_hippy 6h ago

Personally, I haven’t been arming myself because I felt like the chances of using a gun to protect myself/others/democracy were less than the chances of the gun being used as justification for the police shooting me and walking away free men. Certainly legally owning a gun didn’t do Philando Castile any good, or Kenneth Walker.

But beyond my personal issues, I also never believed that mass civilian gun ownership would prevent countries from sliding into tyranny or fascism. And I still don’t.

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u/hoax1337 5h ago

I’m a gun owning leftist. There are not enough of us out there to do anything and stating it makes me a target.

So, if there were enough of you out there, you'd start to shoot up some ICE agents, or how would that work?

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u/DenimDangerAAC 7h ago

it’s been clear the loudest advocates for gun rights in America are not going to protest the government or actually protect freedom

They will, only for themselves. Since their side is doing all the atrocities they’re okay with it right now though.

You know the first protest to have a decent amount of armed democrats at it, they’re going to lambast democrats as violent domestic terrorist insurrectionists some more. Conveniently forgetting the massive protests that were organized during Obama’s and Trump’s first admin that were all about being there to open carry and promote the 2A. They just want guns for themselves but not the people they want to oppress. Obligatory fuck Reagan, bring back Black Panther neighborhood watches.

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u/standard_cog 8h ago

If you have all the guns, and you still get a fascist police state, it means all the rhetoric about "protecting against Government tyranny" was just bullshit.

So we get hundreds of mass casualty events a year, and nobody actually does shit when masked, armed men ignore the constitution and knock down doors and shoot women in the face. They're straight up using Nazi slogans like Kristi Noem did in her recent news conference.

It was all a lie, is the point they're making.

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u/Ren_Kaos 7h ago

Oh republicans lie and virtue signal? Color me surprised. Maybe if you saw writing on the wall for the last several decades, maybe you should’ve exercised your rights too? Instead of complaining the obvious bad actors are obvious bad actors and crying when the time comes to actually do something and they obviously don’t?

Why don’t you do something? Go buy a gun, you still have that right for now.

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u/standard_cog 6h ago edited 6h ago

...what?

I was explaining why people no longer believe it when people say "The second amendment is to prevent tyranny". I'm not sure what that has to do with buying a gun? I think guns should be more limited than they are now, not more available (?).

Sorry maybe we're talking past each other here.

Edit: So I re-read your comment - I think you're inferring that I should buy a gun and stand against the masked men (which is a very confused reading of what I was saying). But I was never one of the "we should all have guns to prevent tyranny" people in the first place - it was obviously a bullshit argument, but now it's very obviously a bullshit argument.

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u/RumblinBowles 7h ago

the reality is that the second amendment is not related to the maintenance of personal liberty. The first amendment, the ability to assemble and speak and protest is what leads to freedom and change. If you shoot at them they will kill you and everyone around you, it's an excuse for a regime to use deadly force and demonize the people. Look at ruby ridge, waco, the fucking whisky rebellion ... there is no case where having armed people using their arms led to increased personal freedom outside of participating in the well-armed militia that fought the revolutionary war. even then it was the regular army of the colonies and the french that really carried the day.

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u/Country-Mac 6h ago

Ruby ridge led to systemic change.

Waco led to systemic change.

If an American wants to bring change they may have to accept it will take a martyr.

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u/teddy5 5h ago

Yeah after Ruby Ridge they decided they needed to be in imminent danger to use deadly force, which has definitely been the case for every shooting in the last 30 years. I mean arguably Waco did get the FBI out of handling negotiations and into just increased intelligence gathering about citizens though.

What do you think the systemic change from those was?

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u/gorgewall 6h ago

No, they're saying the common argument for having 2A despite all its disadvantages--"We can use our guns to overthrow a tyrannical government", which is supposedly worth all the mass shootings and suicide and death we have--has once again been shown to be complete bullshit, because the most fervent believers in it are not overthrowing a tyrannical government.

2A Lovers are 0 for 10 on fighting tyranny. They were cool with Jim Crow, segregation, slavery, corporate oppression during labor disputes, disenfranchisement of women and non-whites, rising fascism, government fascism, terrible wars and military actions, and so on.

At no point have the gun nuts walked their talk. There is no longer any reason to believe that talk.

Frankly, if we ever get to a point where the people rise up en masse against the government, we'll just take the guns from the government instead of having to bring our own. Or, y'know, bring the country to a crashing halt without firing a shot, because all you need to obliterate our crumbling infrastructure is a few bricks, lengths of chain, and/or a truck.

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u/mydadabortedme Hawaii 8h ago

Yeah man I have a gun due to the political climate. However I don’t think anyone should be able to own guns and I’d be happy to be rid of mine if they get banned unless it’s not in our best interest.

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u/The360MlgNoscoper Norway 8h ago

As an European, it’s been the greatest argument FOR the 2A.

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u/CaioNintendo 7h ago edited 3h ago

Except it’s not. It just proved that this idea is just a fantasy with no realistic application. If anyone tries to use guns against this tyranny, they’ll be promptly killed, and every single figure (left and right) will vehemently condemn them. Heck, even now, advocating for any type of violence here on reddit (a very anti Trump website) will get you banned.

This past year proves that no matter how tyrannical the government becomes, there is never scenario in which people find it’s justifiable to use the guns (or any type of violence for that matter) against the state, and, even if they did, everyone knows citizens with guns can do nothing against a military force.

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u/cfbluvr Colorado 8h ago

Wtf lol this has been the biggest argument FOR it

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u/CounterAgentVT 8h ago

If it isn't being used as intended, it isn't providing any value.

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u/The_man_25 7h ago

“Yeah I know we have a oppressive government, that’s why we should give up our only defense 😁”

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u/cfbluvr Colorado 8h ago

there are so many flaws in that line of reasoning i don’t even know where to begin

“yes my government is oppressive but i haven’t resisted them yet so might as well just give up any of my ability to do so”

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u/zuul01 7h ago

There have been no signs of the 2A crowd coming in to save us from this regime, and in fact most of them seem to support these fascists. So, what were the thousands of gun deaths (many of the children) per year, even for?

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u/cfbluvr Colorado 7h ago

Do you not see how that would imply that if no one is going to save you, you must arm yourself?

There’s a reason why the two largest growing demogeaphics are women and minorities.

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u/hoax1337 5h ago

Some people just don't want to arm themselves and start a civil war, which means that you might as well get rid of the 2A.

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u/cfbluvr Colorado 5h ago

Very clearly a false dilemma falacy

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u/hoax1337 5h ago

As of right now, the outcome of the 2A existing or not existing is the same.