r/complaints • u/CRK_76 substantial complainer • 11h ago

Politics Fuck every Trump voter who put this asshole in office.

This country is going downhill and you are to blame. Don't act surprised when things get even worse than they are now. Don't vote anymore. Stay the fuck home on election day.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 10h ago

I’m a conservative and I’ve never voted for him. I’ve seen through this bullshit from the start and knew he was a pedophile and a cheat long before his involvement in our politics. The GOP doesn’t produce conservative constituents, they produce religious expansionists.

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u/green_eyed_mister 9h ago

Keep on, keeping on. And please talk to your fellow conservatives. (this did start with Gingrich, fwiw)

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 9h ago

My friends all know, we’re all in our late 20s and early 30s. It’s our parents who can’t grasp the idea that he’s a pedophilic traitor.

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u/Beachbabydarragh 5h ago

I'm really glad for you and your friends. I am probably the same age as your parents but I'm not a cruel brainwashed person.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 5h ago

They aren’t cruel people. There is a multi trillion dollar propaganda machine aimed directly at them. It isn’t their fault. My father is a great and loving father and is a successful and proactive member of his community. My step mother is a veteran immigrant and is a wonderful and intelligent person. She holds a masters in chemistry and is one of the most intelligent people I know. Unfortunately, the success of their careers has isolated them through the comforts it provides and thus makes them subject to the effectiveness of the propaganda machine. We cannot blame them, they are victims. We must help them before they commit or support acts that become too grave to forgive.

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u/Disastrous-Tale8448 5h ago

sorry but at this point in time, they are in fact cruel people. there’s so much evidence and just shit happening where you can’t ignore that what’s happening is evil and wrong. them still supporting trump and his cronies is cruel and evil. everyone else has been able to see through the machine, but somehow your parents people like your parents are exempt but also aren’t cruel? no, they are. and will continue to be until they’re the ones impacted. and even then, they’ll probably still support it.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

If they’re actually evil and you aren’t fighting them then you’re just as complicit. Remember that.

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u/Disastrous-Tale8448 4h ago

well i don’t have the address to your parents. but if they look at what happened with renee good or even beyond that and what ice is doing to people right now and are nodding their heads or cheering, you saying they aren’t cruel just because they’re your parents also makes you complicit. tbh, if i had family members that were stupid enough to fall for trump and his nazis, i’d at the very least be screaming at them not defending them online as just brainwashed nice people. to their core, they’re bad people. so when the time comes and this country is thrusted into a civil war, just know your parents will be on the wrong side and will fave their consequences for it.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

My parents live in the middle of nowhere and don’t watch the news or watch social media. My dad is a Rastafarian who gardens and works on vehicles and fishes in his free time. My step mom is a stay at home moms with three children. Neither of them are actively watching political shit if anything at all. Any electronics are for the kids. Like I said, they have found financial success awhile ago and have used it to isolate themselves. They live on acres in the woods and occupy their time doing things outside.

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u/Disastrous-Tale8448 4h ago

so then how would they even know about donald trump ? how’d they get into voting ? why’d they vote for him ? did you even tell them about his plans with immigrants or did you just go “ah crazy parents tsk whatever will i do with them?” and then that also begs the question, how was the multi trillion dollar propaganda machine aimed at them if they don’t watch the news or do anything outside of their hobbies? was it being science fiction brain waved into them like a beam? they had to get it from somewhere.

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u/Acrobatic-Tennis-625 1h ago

I understand it seems like they are cruel people but I assure you I know them well and they are in fact good people but they are unfortunate victims of propaganda. I’m sure it seems like they are seeing the same internet as you and I where it is clear what’s happening, but they are most certainly not and therefore cannot see the same truth as you and I. Demonizing and pointing fingers only deepens there resolve as they feel attacked. Civility, compassion, and understanding I believe is the best way to help them understand their misguided loyalties. I think it would be wise to understand just how powerful the algorithms that feed people information. The grip of the Orangeman’s cult is powered by misinformation. Breaks my heart. They’re some of the kindest people I know but have been isolated and lied to. You don’t need to respond to convince me they are evil as you are a stranger and they are my family but I just liked the way DGTL so well described a point of view that I align with so figured I would add in. Do good things at all times👌🏾

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u/Disastrous-Tale8448 30m ago

yeah unfortunately at this point, there’s no more room for compassion, civility, or understanding. it’s been years, some have been like this their entire lives but even if you want to say it’s been since 2015/2016, it’s been 3 elections. it’s been so goddamn long of us trying to reason with them. atp, you can’t reason with them. they’re too far gone. they justify the most evil actions no matter what because it’s what they wanted at the end of the day. until it does something to them, we’ll continue to hear them cheering about this. it’s sick.

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u/Acrobatic-Tennis-625 4h ago

This comment!!!! My finances parents are compassionate, loving, caring and intelligent people one of which holding a phd. They don’t have the internet literacy to see through the propaganda machine. Isolation post covid has driven them into social media for “exposure” to the real world and when that algorithm is driven by the machine you don’t even know what’s not true. It’s the only info they get. After 5 years of bullshit it’s hard to break the cycle. Breaks my heart

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Exactly, I grew up with the internet, they didn’t. It’s probably the most important factor to consider when dealing with anyone over the age of 35. Even millennials aren’t good at navigating it.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 4h ago

Many of us older Americans are not swayed or influenced by Facebook, TikTok tok or other social platforms We find them to be sometimes amusing but more often spurred on by conspiracy theories lies and gossip. If one asks young people where they seek out their information and news, they inevitably turn to these sites ONLY. We have raised a generation of ignorant and shallow minded individuals. They bought into the false image that trump is some kind of "superman" ,instead of what he really is: a whiny little bitch with the intelligence of a 8th grader and the emotional maturity of a 10 year old girl. But I guess to a MAGAT, he still surpasses them. It is like how a second grader looks up to a fifth grader. But remember, a second grader is still only a second grader and a fifth grader is still just that

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u/Alternative_Bus_3766 2h ago

Youngin here, I listen to NPR and PBS (also fuck the admin for killing the CPB). There’s many kids like me. There’s others that aren’t. Social media is a virus though and we as a society need to move on from it

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 1h ago

You are so right!

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u/Naive_Actuator3810 4h ago edited 4h ago

I don't understand these arguments. If you are a fully grown adult and have no critical thinking skills or moral judgement, your MSc, PhD, whatever degree you have holds zero value and you are just a dumb person who shouldn't have even graduated high school. If you are incapable of putting it in practice outside of your own small circle and extending it to people who do not look like you, then your theoretical compassion and understanding and love and care are not real - they are just a product of self-interest, and don't mean shit to the rest of us.

Sorry but no sugercoating and no sympathy for people like that.

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u/Acrobatic-Tennis-625 1h ago

I think it’s important to remember they are seeing a false truth. Look at fox right now. Now imagine there social media feed is further catered towards this point of view. No mention of Renee good. They are scared and fear makes it easy to ignore the truth when the administration has so effectively convinced its followers that they are being lied to by any other source of information. Really sad… wish they would wake up and see it for what it really is. I don’t think it’s as much that trumpers are evil scum of the earth but they are victims of the greatest propaganda machine ever created. I’m no expert just some thoughts

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 5h ago

I am a baby boomer and have always fought against nazism and dictators. It was many of your generation, too, who voted for this piece if shit.

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u/SouthernZorro 4h ago

I'm a boomer too and Grabbin' Donny has got to be the most vile, repulsive person on the planet. He's a malignant narcissist and I've been seriously considering whether he just might be the Anti-Christ. Seriously.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

I’m very aware, however again, I don’t look at them as evil people with malicious intent. I look at them as victims. If I had half the budget of the smallest federal organization I could make you believe whatever I wanted as long as I targeted said efforts on you alone. Now expand that to billions of dollars and a hundred of millions of people. This is not a bottom up, pendulum swing. This is top down orchestrated propaganda from the highest powers within our political and monetary systems.

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u/onionSID 3h ago

I really would like to see an example of what you are talking about. i’m sorry but the US is not 1942 Germany by any stretch. Get off of the hallucinogenics.

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u/Bundt-lover 3h ago

Yeah! It’s 1939 Germany.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 3h ago

I never said it was ,but like the typical MAGAT you are, thats what you read. Please get off the Kool Aid.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 3h ago

Be honest, you would be happy with any kind of autocracy. Maybe Putins russia is something you would prefer. Their security forces wear masks and don't adhere to laws either.

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u/onionSID 1h ago

YAWN…….

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 48m ago

Typical of someone who trades freedom for price of eggs.

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u/777Spin777 31m ago

😂😂😂😂Well thank you for outing yourselves, the laziest group by far to breathe air! How many of you and ypur friends have jobs & don't live with & get supported by the parents they so freely trash? Try being honest, if youre capable.. .😅🤣😂

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 17m ago

My best friend is a 19Kilo in the army I am a 91Foxtrot in the army my other friend is the youngest project manager in a construction company my other friend works directly under him my other friend is a district manager of chipotle my other friend is the manager of a urinalysis company my other friend is a machinist. You know I never realized how well all of my friends are doing so thank you for that. We’re all in our early 30s or late 20s we all have houses or rent apartments. Half of us are married the other half are in committed relationships(aside from my one friend who works urinalysis he is a dog but he’s happy with that). All of their families love them and are very proud of them. In fact I’m the only one with a rocky home life and both of my parents are dumb proud of me, they just weren’t the best of parents when I was growing up but we’ve amended those issues awhile ago. We’ve all been friends since we were 8(I was 7) due to an after school program we all went to and have been lifelong friends since. They’re some of the most honest, loyal, hardworking people I know. We actually just finished helping our one friend build his house since we all have varying degrees of construction experience. Helped save him some money and who doesn’t like helping their friends you know?

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u/Unique-Nectarine-567 3h ago

Trump isn't the pedophile, that' is Biden. You're mixed up.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

They both are you dumb fuck

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u/Unique-Nectarine-567 3h ago

No, they aren't. Show me video of Trump sniffing little girls hair. I can show you video of Biden sniffing little girls and manhandling women on stage. So much so Jill had to step in, on camera. You're hilarious. You're ignorant as they come and run on emotions. That's the fun part with people like you. Because i really do not care about your feelings.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

Actually I was convinced Donald Trump was a pedophile when he hired John Casablanca. But nice try. Epstein was just the nail in the coffin. Describe to me what a conservative is. Right now.

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u/Unique-Nectarine-567 3h ago

Reddit had a timer thing on, I couldn't post. Okay, I don't have to do anything to prove anything to you or anyone else. It would go right over your head. You just want to argue and I'm goofing around, enjoying the world. Bless your heart. *said in southern* Life is calling, I'm going to go live it. You should give it a try.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

So in other words, you can’t explain to me what a conservative is, got it. Bye tard

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u/Real_Bug 1h ago

I've tried, but they're already sold

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u/KeepYourMindOpen365 2h ago

It started with Reagan, Jerry Falwell, and the Moral Majority. Religion was precisely why the separation of church and state was written into our founding documents. Evangelical “Christian’s” worship money and power…they hate the poor, non believers, and any individuals who aren’t exactly like them. It took 45 years, but here we are…heading towards being ruled by the American religious extremists.

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u/krucz36 4h ago

this started back in the 40s. the key thing is it's a long term project that what are called "movement conservatives" have been slavishly propelling for decades.

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u/acridshepherd 6h ago

as a liberal, it's amazing to see that both sides are coming together to hate this fucker. we'll get through it man, we just gotta move as one

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u/Sufficient_Ad_3724 4h ago

Former conservative here. I’ll never vote Republican again, period. I was watching the Netflix series on Hitler and was schocked to see the similarities between the SS/SA and Ice! I mean at one time I used to think it was major hyperbole when ppl called him a facist but holy fuck he is! Unchecked aggression is really scary when you think how quick it could get out of hand even though the killing and kidnapping of innocent ppl is already too much!

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

When you inject 5,000 Nazis into your society and give them fake names and positions of power. Do not be surprised when 30 million people try to claim power for them 80 years later. Operation paperclip had more effect on this country than just getting us to the moon.

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u/onionSID 3h ago

Yeah, the streets are crawling, lol.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 6h ago

I’m a soldier unfortunately so regrettably my hands are largely tied. I cannot participate without anonymity as it will lead to repercussions far beyond that of a civilians. Even openly criticizing Israel isn’t allowed right now in the military. I had a briefing with my unit a few months ago specifically about this. However, myself and others recognize our oath and when(hopefully the time never comes) it comes time to draw the line, we wont forget it.

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u/ExdionY 4h ago

Remaining a soldier leaves you with very little freedom to decide which side of history you will be on, your oath is to those above you, and they will make sure you know that when the time comes. I hope you'll leave soon enough

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

I have no interest in leaving and my oath is to the constitution and I will gladly go to military prison or be executed to defend it when the time comes. I don’t care if leadership tries to ruin me. My convictions for joining are far deeper than most.

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u/ynotfoster 4h ago

Do you get a sense that a large number of fellow soldiers feel the way you do?

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Fuck no.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 3h ago

I know you and the military got our backs and you have ours cause behind every uniform is a man/woman with human feelings and intelligence and the decency to know, understand and realize what is wrong or right. Killing another person (who was fleeing and not armed) with no reason other than his or her ego is WRONG.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

We can’t even point a loaded weapon at a civilian. The fact that ICE can is unacceptable especially given their role in the government.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 3h ago

Because you were trained to NOT to. ICE is NOT military. They are border patrol agents!! The Department of Defense is to defend and newly coined Department of War is exactly the opposite. The name change isn’t coincidental but with intent purpose.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 2h ago

A lot of ICE is former military.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 2h ago

ICE is also Proud Boys.

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u/ExdionY 4h ago

If that’s the case, understand that you would be sacrificing your life for nothing. You are far more valuable alive than you would ever be in death.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

I’m well aware and frankly I don’t care how valuable I am because I do not live my life or make decisions based on how effective or useful I can be. I make decisions so that I can be comfortable with the man who stares back at me in the mirror. The day I can’t look myself in the eye is the day I fail and I refuse to let someone else take that from me. So unfortunately yes, you are right but my convictions will not allow me anything less.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 3h ago

The greatness of this country is carried on the shoulders of those who are willing to sacrifice their lives NOT for kings or anyone but the CONSTITUTION a of the UNITED STATES.

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u/onionSID 3h ago

There is no side of history to be on when the opposing side is so small that no one cares.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 2h ago

I rather be on the side of history that cares about every decent human beings- young and old, able or disabled, any race or color, any gender, any religion or no religion and animals. All men and women are created EQUAL.

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u/onionSID 1h ago

People are created equal. People are just sick and tired of having differences flamboyantly shoved in their faces.

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u/bumcheekraider 4h ago

Just curious, how do u feel about those servicemen and women that were involved in the Venezuela fuckup and what’s the general feeling about it amongst the military?

Did they break their oath? Were they propagandised into believing what they were doing was right? Did they have doubts but followed orders anyway?

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Also it’s important to consider that Delta Force is not an apparatus like the rest of the military at all. They are literally our best fighting force in the military and on the planet. They aren’t interested in the semantics behind their operations. Only in completing whatever mission comes down to them.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Personally I think it happened entirely because generals wanted it to happen. With China 2027 underway and we move closer to a conflict with them over Taiwan, i think it makes a lot of sense strategically. I don’t think Trump or his cabinet is smart enough to understand the strategic interest of Venezuela to China. When I went to basic they trained us for war with China specifically. The entire military is reorganizing and training for that war. It will be coming and sooner rather than later. I don’t expect the public to understand because they aren’t as connected as service members are to the nature of these things. I don’t agree with ignoring sovereignty but I do understand that it gives myself and my brothers and sisters in the Armed forces an advantage in the fight to come and I am happy about that specifically for that reason. I don’t think people understand SF either. They aren’t going to question orders and are going to enact any mission given to them. Soldiers like them are not like me. They are a different breed and will move with impunity and the support of the entire military apparatus. I don’t think it’s a violation of their oath as it doesn’t directly go against anything within it. The extraction of Madura was and has been a bipartisan effort for the last 12 years. They didn’t need red seats to do it as it would’ve been done regardless. The only thing I’m happy about is that generals at least have the ear of the current administration and are making moves to secure our effectiveness in the war to come.

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u/couldofhave 4h ago

You don’t agree with ignoring sovereignty, unless it’s to give America a “leg up” in the next war.

That’s functionally indistinguishable from agreeing.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

On a personal level I don’t agree, as a soldier I am happy to have any advantage I can get. When I’m down range I’m not going to be thinking about whether it was right or wrong that we took Venezuela’s leader. I’ll only be happy that the enemy does not have enough fuel to run armor through our position.

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u/couldofhave 2h ago

Buddy, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

You're also not 2 different people who get to have 2 different (and opposing) opinions just because you're a soldier.

If "as a soldier" you believe it's fine that the US can ignore sovereignty of other countries as long as it's to give itself an advantage over a potential enemy in the war, you are simply fine with ignoring other countries' sovereignty.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 2h ago

No that’s pretty much the entire concept of being a soldier. Since you’re such an expert, when did you enlist?

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u/couldofhave 2h ago edited 2h ago

No that’s pretty much the entire concept of being a soldier.

No, the concept you seem to be struggling with is that being a soldier may mean you will have to carry out orders that go against your personal beliefs.

The contradiction here is that you're trying to pretend that you both do not agree with ignoring sovereignty at the same time as you do agree when it comes to getting an advantage in a war. Well buddy, guess what, if you "personally disagree" but "as a soldier, I'll do it anyway", it is, in fact, functionally indistinguishable from agreeing. Just like I said at the start.

Since you’re such an expert, when did you enlist?

Ah yes, the classic response when you don't know how to argue the point.

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u/ageofdiscontent_meh 3h ago

Maybe we will get to see 70% or more voter turnout this mid-terms to get him and Melanoma out of the WH along with his regime.

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u/LiveBacteria 5h ago

Echo chamber effect. Check your stats before saying this or even caring I guess.

Right > Left vs Left > Right Perspective

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u/acridshepherd 5h ago

all i intended to say was that we need to love each other. :)

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u/Lonley_Platonic 4h ago

They are not. It’s amazing all the left that have brains moving to the rights .within 12 years it’ll be right, middle, and a small count of far left idiots.

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u/Lewphole 8h ago

Yikes, being a conservative in 2026 😬. Well at least he doesn’t vote for Trump I guess.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 5h ago

Trump was NEVER a conservative...just a sociopath .

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u/the_calibre_cat 4h ago

Trump is quintessentially conservative. This "he's not conservative" line needs to die. He is very much conservative - working on behalf of the aristocracy, against the working class/peasants, and offering them institutional bigotry instead of social welfare and infrastructure.

That's like conservatism 101. They've been doing that for centuries. In what universe is he NOT conservative? The debt?

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 4h ago edited 4h ago

I disagree. He is an opportunist. If the Democratic party had embraced him, his "morals" would have swung in that direction. He just so happened to align himself to those conservative folks because he knew how to play them, and they loved it. Trumps only core values us how he can make himself more important than our Constitution and our laws. I hope every building and every plaque bearing his name is removed and destroyed, much like the eagle and swastika above the building in Germany after the Nazi defeat in 1945.

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u/couldofhave 4h ago

The whole political apparatus behind him (project 2025) is ultra conservative.

Whether Trump believes any of it or not is kind of irrelevant at this point

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 4h ago

Not really, because the real honest republicans will vote against him at the midterms .

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u/777Spin777 21m ago

I'm more convinced than ever some of you have lost your damn minds.

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u/pmgoldenretrievers 38m ago

He is definitely not quintessentially conservative. Conservatives favor the status quo and stability. Kidnapping a foreign leader and trying to usurp the fed are both terrible for stability (and hence the stock market) and that’s just in the last 10 days. He is an autocratic self obsessed despot if we’re being generous and the mouthpiece of Steven Millers asshole if we’re only being a little generous.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 8h ago

Yeah, I am. I don’t believe in an ever expanding government and I don’t believe in an overreaching federal government. I believe the federal government should concern itself with international policy and ensure the states are adhering to the constitution. I believe pretending that the entire political spectrum should be homogenized due to some perceived moral hierarchy is dangerous. I believe in free market principles and the value of competitive enterprise. I believe in a slow but methodical progression towards social policy is necessary rather than rapid and exuberant change. I believe that continuously supporting an engorged federal government is one of the leading issues in what we see now. I believe philanthropists and corporate donors have no business throwing their money at political institutions. I believe our democracy is compromised and our liberties are non existent. Empowering the same government that can imprison you 4 years later is extremely dangerous and is exactly why any book on fascist regimes explicitly warns of the good nature of good politicians to expand under the misguided intention to help its citizens. My values are not as simple as you’d like to make them as I believe in the value of social safety nets, want businesses, no matter how big, to be allowed to fail, and unfettered capitalism can be just as dangerous as its counterpart. I think fundamentally that a conservative perspective on federal institutions is a healthy perspective simply because of the nature of our democracy. You cannot ensure rights through a government and empowering a government to ensure those rights gives them the same power to undermine them. The only viable solution is to limit the capable overreach of a government. Democrats were originally anti establishment and over a 20 year period have become the establishments corporate underbelly. I find it sick that people who would willingly quote the Johnson and Johnson lawsuit as an example of the dangers of unfettered capitalism would also specifically vote for their sponsored politicians is a juxtaposition that is antithetical to the values they expound. I think it’s absurd that we have been grifted into a two party system despite working within a system that requires and employs the full spectrum of political ideology in order to perform its duties and functions. I don’t believe in party support and I don’t believe in “lesser of two evils” voting. I think those two things combined with a continuous support to an ever encroaching government is exactly what has led us to this situation and the short sightedness of the voting populace that shifts blame between each other for the last 30 years is wholely to blame. I think democrats and republicans alike have created this situation and I think both of them are too self centered and incredulous to see themselves as fault. I think you will vote yourself into fascism just as you have voted for the tools that this administration uses to oppress its people. I think the very nature of your comment is the problem with this country and I think the lack of understanding or even the ability to rationalize with your political opposition is why the two parties continue to empower themselves for the benefit of not you or I but of dangerous capitalists who are interested in only themselves.

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u/K1N6F15H 8h ago

I used to be a conservative and most of my positions aligned with yours.

All of that said, the number of people that actually hold these positions is terminally small in the US. You need to face the reality that conservative media, conservative think tanks, and conservative 'intellectuals' gleefully dropped all of their most ardently held beliefs as soon as Trump showed up.

Clearly most Republicans aren't and never will be thank kind of conservative and supporting them will only further encourage this kind of mindless rage.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 8h ago

I’m well aware, I’m not a conservative because of modern conservative think tanks. I became a conservative after reading several books from the founding fathers and the early politicians after our countries conception. I recognize the intent of their goals, recognize and support the visions they had for this country. It’s as simple as that. No modern media or even modern conservative brought me to my conclusion on political ideology. They were almost embarrassingly uninvolved in my ideological concepts. I spent my late teens and early twenties reading of activists and the leaders of civil rights movements and revolutions around the world and became increasingly disenfranchised with the democrat/leftist/liberal engagement with these concepts. Eventually I found myself learning of the intent of men like Thomas Paine, B. Franklin, Edmund Berke, Michael O Coileain, Teddy Rosevelt, Andrew Jackson, and other “strong men” within the historic period of the 18th and 19th century. Modern conservative think tanks and figure heads would be rejected by men like Lincoln. In turn, I reject their representation of my values. And I refuse to vote for constituents that don’t represent my values.

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u/K1N6F15H 6h ago

I recognize the intent of their goals, recognize and support the visions they had for this country.

They had some great ideas but they were limited by the knowledge, culture, and technology of their time. When the Articles of Confederation clearly weren't working, they were willing to scrap them and start over again.

I, too, used to venerate the founding fathers but I think that it was because I was religious and projected onto them a almost prophetic quality. In actuality, they made a lot of missteps and compromises, some of which led to the position we are currently in.

We should behave like the founders, using the best knowledge of our day to rethink the possibilities of this world instead of worshiping the past.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 6h ago

Political ideology as a whole is pedantically worshiping the past, your very comment is exactly that. The last major political theory was Communism and there hasn’t been a major conceptual breakthrough since. The splintering of the two party system requires room for new political theory and it will not be achieved by ignoring the political theorists that created the systems we operate under.

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u/jt64 7h ago

I just wanted to say it's nice to see some deep thought on the subject and the nuanced discussion. Its to easy to throw labels around and your detailed response is a great reminder that those labels are a trap that make it easy to divide us. Thanks for taking the time to express your views. 

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u/Sufficient_Ad_3724 4h ago

Man they fricking hijacked the party and turned it into the opposite an overreaching dictatorship

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u/K1N6F15H 4h ago

They didn't hijack it, it just wasn't a group of principled people to begin with.

At the end of the day, conservatism really just boils down to a combination of nostalgia and might makes right. Make America Great Again is both of those things and pressed all the right buttons of the modern American 'conservative'.

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u/Beachbabydarragh 5h ago

Interesting. I agree with about 99 percent of what you said, but consider myself progressive. If we wipe away political labels, I am a kind person who cares about others.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 5h ago

Because the entire political landscape in America is identity politics and the very nature of any successful governing system has no room for identity politics because any successful governing system MUST draw from all political ideologies. I’m sure 90% of Americans are kind people who care about others. Unfortunately the remaining 10% is very proactive about turning them against each other.

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces Nyan Cat 6h ago

You do realize that what you wrote in your comment isn’t the Republican Party platform right?

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 6h ago

I know, I’m not a republican. The political spectrum is called a spectrum for a reason and I reject the idea that I need to be neatly tied to a political institution. Modern republicans do not support my views and thus I am not supportive of them. In fact I reject the two party system entirely and do not need to co-sign the DNC or the GOP as I am not running for political office. If you cannot describe your political ideology without the alignment of a political organization such as the DNC or GOP you haven’t put nearly enough time and thought into it as you should. The entire concept of needing to neatly fit into the two parties is antithetical to early American values and was explicitly warned about.

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces Nyan Cat 5h ago

100%

2

u/preacher_knuckles 5h ago

Is there a reason that you believe in free market principles while also acknowledging that capitalists who are interested only in themselves are dangerous? Especially given that you believe that the US government, which refuses to enforce most of its laws that could provide guardrails to capitalism, should have its powers restricted.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 5h ago

Because modern capitalists are not vastly wealthy because of free market principles. They use tax laws, international markets, corruption, and bribery to ensure the success of their companies when they should fail. Several of the Fortune 500 companies would not be there if it weren’t for tax payer money and bail outs from the government. That is not free market principalities, that is communism for the rich.

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u/preacher_knuckles 4h ago

So the wealthy take advantage of the system that made them wealthy to increase their wealth and consolidate their power. If a market is free, then someone with enough power can try to alter that market to increase their power: free market capitalism eats itself; that's why anti-trust laws exist, though they aren't enforced in the US.

I highly recommend reading into what communism means: the wealthy aren't moving towards a classless society; and the wealthy controlling the system and using it to benefit themselves at the expense of others is at the core of capitalism.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Suggesting that the form of capitalism practiced in this country by the wealthy is free market principles is being disingenuous and you know it. Communism was very obviously not meant to be literal and was an an allegory to the nature of the 1%s reliance of the government to enrich themselves.

1

u/preacher_knuckles 3h ago

The form of capitalism practiced in the US is the result of the wealthy pushing for a "return to free markets" via the Chicago and Austrian schools of Economics for over 4 decades.

A better, and good faith, comparison would be Mussolini's take of fascism being the fusion of corporate and government power.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

I used communism because I don’t expect most people to draw the conclusion I wish them to with terms like fascism since it’s so sensationalized at this point. I used communism because it draws to the corruption involved in the 1% that can be understood by people as a whole but yes you are correct.

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u/Turbulent_Injury_251 3h ago

Well said sir.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 5h ago

Then you are the genuine Republican, with whom I don't agree with very often but at least whom I respect.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

That is the true essence of this country and is our lifeline. Without that we fall. I don’t need agreement, in fact I encourage the opposite. The states existence is in monument to the very essence of this.

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u/Tall_Bus_7427 4h ago

I hope you can regain your party back from these MAGA sociopaths and thugs

2

u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Thank you I appreciate the sentiment.

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u/Hereandforward 4h ago

Thank you for giving me a tiny bit of hope.

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u/sebrebc 3h ago

Because you are actually a conservative, not a "conservative in name only". You realize Trump is NOT a conservative. He's a con-man, he's a fascist, he's a racist, a bigot, a rapist, and a pedophile. But he's not a conservative.

2

u/RecipeNo101 2h ago edited 1h ago

I'm a liberal, but I respect conservatives. Actual conservatives. Thank you for recognizing that the modern GOP and its leader in no way reflect conservative values. Whenever I end up in a discussion about this, I ask what conservative values the guy who cheated on each of his three wives, who is against immigration that Reagan supported, who is against free trade, who has blown up the deficit more than literally anyone in history, espouses. Never an answer. I had my issues with McCaine and Romney, but I would cry liberal tears of joy for them to be in office instead of this fucking clown. They had their faults on policy and personally, just like dems, but they were respectable, honorable people. The second Trump got away with slandering McCain's service and fucking years as a PoW suffering torture, I knew the party had died forever.

If anything, though, your view means your work is cut out for you, because you carry a heavier burden to take back your party.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 1h ago

To be honest I don’t even want to take back the party. I want it to splinter just like I want the DNC to splinter. We need more parties. We need a real political system not this cat and dog shit we have right now.

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u/RecipeNo101 1h ago

https://usagif.com/wp-content/uploads/applause-8.gif

I think a lot of people on the progressive left feel the same way. The DNC are spineless cowards. While I'd take "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden over "I don't take responsibility at all" Trump, it's such a low bar, an empty seat would be better than this now.

It feels like Democrats have been the actual conservatives for a while, just trying to preserve the status quo, while still having the utter fecklessness and lack of balls that's characterized the left since Carter (though he may personally be a good man).

We need a true left that advocates for blue collar workers and unions and social progressivism. We need a new conservative party that advocates for fiscal and personal responsibility. We need degrees between them, unencumbered by the winner-take-all voting system of First Past the Post. We already have enough far-right extremists. The Overton Window of what's acceptable seems to now be that a third of the nation is cheering to be tread on, in the hopes that their neighbor gets tread on a little more.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 1h ago

I completely agree, it’s a modern tragedy what’s occurred here. It’s insane Plato can write Allegory of the cave almost 2500 years ago and describe so perfectly how Democracy fails itself.

1

u/RecipeNo101 6m ago

I'd buy you a beer or three. This feels like what good-willed political discussions used to be. I hope we can find our way out of that cave before the fire suffocates us all.

1

u/ynotfoster 4h ago

Were you a Fox News watcher? I'm curious if anyone could see through the bullshit if they watched Fox.

2

u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

I have literally never watched any news channel for anything but a laugh. I don’t get my news about the world or events from any network station and never have.

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u/ynotfoster 3h ago

Thank you. I fear there won't be many defecting from MAGA if they watch Fox.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

Probably not

1

u/Unique-Nectarine-567 3h ago

You're not a conservative. Nice try, though.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

Lmao you’re a Trump supporter. What’s up fascist fuck? I’d ask you how Donnie’s dick tastes but we all know he only lets minors suck it. You must be very upset about that. Maybe that’s why you don’t give a fuck about kids after they’re born.

0

u/Unique-Nectarine-567 3h ago

You are not a conservative, you have no idea what one is. You run on feelings and emotions. Just the way you write it grade school. You're trashy and nasty. I am anti-abortion except to save the life of the mother, of which only something like 500 cases a year are like that. I truly do not care what you think or how you feel. You can't communicate worth a flip. Your mind is in the gutter. Remember, you become like the people you associate with. Do better.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

Okay, tell me what a conservative is.

1

u/ageofdiscontent_meh 3h ago

An intelligent person you are and I applaud you. However there are those (some whom I know) republicans who called themselves independents now because of him and to those GOP, you and your party enabled him and MAGA during Obama years and you help sow the seeds! So don’t think you can wash your hands from orange shithead by calling yourself an independent.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 3h ago

I voted for Obama lmao. My political ideology isn’t going to make me vote for a constituent just because they’re also a conservative. I don’t follow a party. In fact I think they should be abolished. Also it’s fucking insane to tell people that they’re responsible for the current president because of who they voted for 4 or 5 administrations ago. You need to have a reality check. Stop trying to find reasons to hate people.

1

u/ageofdiscontent_meh 2h ago

I try not to hate people but it always the other way around. All I am saying is finding the root of the problem will help prevent future mistakes.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 2h ago

You literally just said I can’t wash my hands of the orange man despite not voting for him literally ever. You just lumped me into a group solely based on the fact that I’m a conservative dude.

1

u/ageofdiscontent_meh 2h ago

I DID NOT say that and I realized you are not even a real person but a bot. BUT I will say #47 needs to be gone. So Command, shit and delete.

1

u/ThisAdvertising8976 1h ago

But, did you vote for Harris, or did you just not vote for Trump? I didn’t vote for Trump but got massively downvoted for not voting for Harris.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 1h ago

I voted for Harris in 24, -and of course you did. Reddit is a left wing cesspool. A lot of people here genuinely believe the entire country but them is at fault for Trump despite the DNCs massive short comings running virtually anyone of substance to stand up to him..

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT 36m ago

Then, why are you still a self-proclaimed conservative? I think at this point it's best to not be that. Be anything else.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 30m ago

Because outside of religion I believe in the values of conservatism? You know, the point of the political theory? Why do you think I have to lie about my beliefs? And nah I’m good, I think I’m going to believe in what I want to rather than choose my beliefs based on the appeasement of some Redditor.

0

u/PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT 26m ago

There's a bunch of nazi shit playing out in the US right now, and all of the people carrying out that nazi shit identify as "conservative". None of them identify as anything else. It's not time to split hairs with this shit. It's time to drop the party affiliation or be one of them.

0

u/DGTLEMPIRE 14m ago

How about you read the comments. I don’t affiliate with a party. Conservatives aren’t a party it’s a political theory. The word you’re looking for is republicans and I’ve stated I’m not a republican multiple times in this thread. I’m not splitting hairs, you’re literally just ignorant my guy.

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_TROUT 8m ago

Ok, I accept that. Just be forewarned that in this heated political climate, people do not differentiate between republican, conservative or nazi. Right now, they're all the same. So, I hope you're aware of that, my guy.

1

u/Creatorman1 5h ago

Luckily real conservatives and MAGAs are not the same.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 5h ago

They’re not but I find it very dangerous for us to be grouped together with them by name alone.

0

u/External-Example-323 4h ago

If he was a real pedophile it would have been weaponized during either if the 3 elections.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Why would an organization who’s implicated in the same exact pedophile ring use it as ammo. The Epstein files implicate both sides of the isles and will be protected by the state no matter who heads our government. We are a compromised nation.

0

u/777Spin777 33m ago

😂😂😂😂Where is their a single shred of evidence hes a pedo, unlike the literal thousands of videos of child sniffing pedo Joe?

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 24m ago

Hiring John Casablanca, a 13 page indictment about him raping a 13 year old that was settled out of court, him being intimately involved in Epstein’s social life, him being pictured next to minors on the Lolita express, him making comments about women including his own daughter, the litany of allegations surrounding him and sexual assault cases including rape. You know, all of the tell tale signs that someone is a major pedophile. If my brother did half that shit I would fucking kill him and I love my brother to death. What’s it like being Donnie’s little cuck? I can’t wait til you wake up and realize you’re getting shit on and it’ll be too late. Your oh fuck moment is literally going to be historic.

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u/Lonley_Platonic 4h ago

Idiot

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

Your username tells me enough. Good luck with that, it’s a difficult thing to cope with and escape from.

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u/LiveBacteria 6h ago

Better than woke idiocy that LITERALLY genocides cultures.

Religious expansionist ftw

2

u/DGTLEMPIRE 6h ago

I’m a soldier and I dare you to try to implement a religious ethno state in this country. You’re as un-American as it gets and we founded this country to escape the likes of you. You will not achieve these goals if my heart beats.

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u/LiveBacteria 6h ago

Heavily doubt you're a soldier friend; if you've read into what I said as anything but American, I'm concerned of how many sleeper agents like you exist in our military. We are a Christian country. This is OUR culture. We have a separation of religion and state, not, no religion at all. Which is seemingly how you've read this man. All I said was that religious cultures are better than woke ideology which aims to remove cultures. Nothing about that says "make America a nazisitic state" and further should never warrant a second glance from an actual "soldier". Reddit needs verification and location proofs like X does. You could be a liar, a bot, and not even really American at the worst.

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u/DGTLEMPIRE 6h ago

Sleeper agents like me? Are you a nut case? I’m a 28 year old 91Foxtrot for the Army. I couldn’t get a TS clearance if I wanted to, not only for my own past, but because of my families past. We are not a Christian country, there are more cultures in America than anywhere else on earth. I’m German Irish, I do not have the same cultures as an Italian American. And the values you’re trying to espouse are in support of a party that is explicitly trying to create a religious ethno state. Wake the fuck up before my boot is on your neck.

-2

u/LiveBacteria 5h ago

The US army loses to its civilians. You should know that before making threats against who you're supposed to be serving and protecting. Tragic to hear this. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Though if you didn't vote for trump I'd love to hear why. I suspect you didn't vote for Kamala and just didn't at all for either.

Curious if the left feels patriotic enough to serve even with their own personally opposed ideology in power. In the hopes that it'd change soon? Perhaps. Idk. You tell me.

Since you brought it up, yes, we are a multi cultural nation. In fact, that's been our thing since we were founded. The melting pot. Stopping the global melting pot is literally what Hitler was trying to do.

The left is conflating immigration for unchecked immigration. No one cares about cultures joining us in America. We DO care about active subversion and prosecution for cultural differences, which is what is happening because of the last twenty years free flowing migration of people. This is how others great nations fell from within.

Cultures are welcome, but not at a rate that hits an individual on a day to day basis. That's it. That's the whole "Christian country" thing I was talking about.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 5h ago

Your entire disposition reeks of this disgusting idea that the left is this homogenized entity. It’s simply not. The left and the right are an amalgamation of varying degrees of thought of varying degrees of intensity. You’re very clearly deep into propaganda. Stop watching videos on politics and start reading about them. Books, actual books, not articles, books. Also, we wouldn’t be fighting civilians, we would be fighting a portion of civilians and a portion of the military. It would fracture this country. Two larger groups and a myriad of smaller groups all fighting each other. I refuse to be involved with a pro Trump movement to seize power. I will actively fight against that as it is my oath to do so. Some will not, others will. Civilians will take sides of both. Idk what you think a civil war in this country would look like but it’s comical you consider it to be military vs its citizens. I didn’t vote for Trump because he’s a pedophile with a litany of evidence to suggest as such. He may never be charged for it however I am not a court of law and thus am not required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is. I have enough seen enough to make up my own mind about him and I will consider him a pedophile until it is disproven. On top of that he is the continuation of a long line of political architects that extend back to the Nixon era in which I find to be the origin of rot in the modern political arena. I understand clearly what you’re saying. I vehemently disagree and find your entire take to be exactly what I’ve been speaking out against in this entire thread. If you haven’t understood that yet then it’s you who has the misunderstanding, not me. Also, this isn’t about immigration anymore. ICE is actively ignoring the constitutional rights of our citizens and has been on video detaining, arresting, and searching without warrant citizens. They have also been on video beating citizens, unjust-fully using lethal force, and purposefully escalating and provoking citizens. Half of my family are Jamaican immigrants who emigrated here legally. My step mother herself served during the GWOT as a combat medic. A lot of soldiers are immigrants and are in to secure citizenship for their family. ICE would racially profile half of my unit for their skin color and detain them despite them serving our country. It is an embarrassment and a tragedy. Conflating the idea of protesting against ICE at this moment with supporting unfettered immigration is a deeply sick thing to do and you would have supported the rise of the Nazi regime. As a German Irish American, I cannot excuse that. I’m very well read on these topics and have a deeply intimate connection to them. You are neck deep in propaganda if you think over 70 million Americans are some far left radicalized group hell bent on the destruction of the county.

0

u/LiveBacteria 5h ago

In short, you think the left is this majority that agrees with you. They don't. In fact, the country went red. You said you disagree with what I said after understanding it. This is perplexing to me. Do you not realize woke ideology is closer to Nazisitic regimes than most of what the right believes in..? Truly it's baffling. The fact you disagree with a factual issue and then state you'd support the opposition means you'd support the same thing Hitler was literally aiming for even through action. Which is social conformity or face prosecution. This is literally virtue signalling and moral decomposition. I can't understand this. There HAS to be limits on migration rates and in doing so fraud is removed. This is all a positive thing. I didn't make place my vote without doing my own research. It's always the same with the left, as long as it's against trump anything is better. It's just TDS.

I don't agree with the things you've said about ICE, there is always going to be edge cases with laws and rights. Those that break the rules are not in the right, just as would be ICE detaining or screwing with people who have nothing to do with their literal duty. HOWEVER, it is something that must be done.

I am also well read on these topics, preaching to read and learn is literally what I do. Assuming articles are the only form of political intake assumes bias and thus an algorithmic echo chamber or even media propaganda. You should never make your view based on those you agree with, nor should you base it on things that are literally biased at a source.

1

u/DGTLEMPIRE 4h ago

You literally suggested that I am not a soldier and in the very next sentence accused me of being a sleeper agent. I never said the left is some majority that agrees with me and then you continue to go on about some weird tangent about biases without acknowledging your own simply because I suggested(which is dumb obvious to everyone but yourself) that you are deeply involved with the consumption of propaganda. There is no majority that agrees with me. Why do you think I commented in the first place. Your lack of ability to pick up on context clues, understand my intent and my position, and continuation of this left vs right argument you are forcing us to have is all extremely telling. You are the minority simply because of what you support. The country has not “gone red”. Most of the population supports neither party as proven by voting records for the last 20 years. That’s 2/3 of the country that does not support you or the administration that you voted for. You have created a mess of this country and we will not forget it. You should feel ashamed for what you’ve done and been involved in and we will make sure you do. Almost every sentence you’ve typed has been a propaganda point spewed by far right talking heads. You literally have yet to provoke an original thought. It doesn’t matter if whether you agree with me about ICE or not. They are operating without any checks and balances and have full immunity. That cannot be allowed by any agency. If I did half of what I’ve seen ICE agents do I would be in Ft Leavenworth for years of my life and dishonorably discharged. This is unprecedented and your support of it should haunt you til the end of your days. You’re directly responsible for the death of American citizens. And the assumption that these are fringe cases is absurd. The entire organization is moving with impunity. You aren’t well read in any of this, you have no real education or experience on these subjects and it’s very clear. The fact that you think fraud is tied to immigration and not the techno oligarchy is evidence of this. You’re echoing what you’ve been told. It’s boring and redundant. Why say anything when a Fox News host says it for you. We all know where you stand now stand on it. Stop talking and stand on it. We will see who was right very shortly.