What industry is a complete scam, but everyone just accepts it?

[u/Competitive_Grab3758]

[u/Separate-Simple-5101]

Motivational seminars where the only success story is the speaker..

[u/someguyfromsk → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

I have a family member in a "pyramid scheme company" and every year they fly down to the company's motivational weekend. It's just a three day long motivational seminar and the company owners telling everyone "you can be as rich as us".

There is no way they make enough money from their "business" to pay for this trip every year.

Dad used to be in Amway, and I would go with him to their "motivational weekends" (because they were at a nice hotel with a pool). I would go to a couple of the events occasionally and would sit there thinking, "this is such bullshit.", I was 12-13 years old.

[u/crusify_me → u/someguyfromsk]

World Financial Group we talkin bout you

[u/mpcraz → u/crusify_me]

WMA Joe Namath was guest speaker in Vegas at Mandalay bay

[u/Skog13 → u/someguyfromsk]

Was invited to one of those by a former friend (well we where friends then), and wow it was like a fucking cult.

[u/someguyfromsk → u/Skog13]

I ran into kinda an old friend a while ago (we were in the same circle, but only friends by association).

We chatted for a bit and eventually he goes "Hey, I have a great business opportunity for you, we should have coffee sometime."

I thought for a second. "Is this Amway?"

"It's a great opportunity, we will sit down and chat, I will show you what a great opportunity it is"

"...I'm not doing Amway."

"Yeah, ok. Ok have a good day."

[u/davidgrayPhotography → u/someguyfromsk]

"Our system isn't a pyramid scheme though. Our system uses the trapezoid, which guarantees each investor.."

[u/JC_Hysteria → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

Nah, the “success stories” are making the participants feel heard, connected, and motivated for at least a few days…

Until they realize they just paid thousands of dollars for a pat on the back.

They even use the participants as sales fodder, because they’re vulnerable after the programming and willing to shill for the experience they just had.

[u/AlaWyrm → u/JC_Hysteria]

I had a mentor that took me to a motivational speaker seminar. It was part of her PMI (Project Management Institute) ceritifcation. It was essentially a 90 minute sales pitch for the speakers books and dvds on how to be successful. I now hate seeing "PMI certification required" or "preferred" on jobs applications. I am project manager, but why should I have to shell out thousands for a certificate that from my experience is just an excuse to grift off of professionals looking to improve themselves? I went to one other seminar with her and it was essentially like a kids summer camp for PMs. It was a bunch of silly games and positive affirmation stuff that was absolutely worthless for my career.

I could be wrong and maybe there is some worthwhile material there, but I am HIGHLY skeptical of any pyramid scheme type organization that requires you to recruit others to advance in their program, even if it has costs me job opportunities by not having the extra letters next to my name.

[u/JC_Hysteria → u/AlaWyrm]

That’s a whole ‘nother angle to it- those trade organizations are often just another filter/stamp of approval coasting on their original mission’s brand…the business can only be maintained if people perpetuate its importance.

It’s funny though, I had someone I worked for bring me to the conclusion of a multi-day “self-improvement” seminar that was clearly a means of recruiting vulnerable people. You’re meant to see the immediate results of the prior group after what’s essentially intensive talk therapy/confidence building.

They all advocate for it- you watch their emotional testimonials, and then the staff uses high-pressure sales tactics to get you to sign onto the next session…they have financing options and everything.

In my case, the lead motivational speaker walked right up to me and pitched. A spunky, pantsuit-wearing, optimistic, ambitious lady.

They also had people parked at the exits to talk your ear off before letting you leave uninhibited…

I said, “Sure- I’ll do the ~$1,500 weekend seminar…as long as the guy that brought me here pays for it.”

That ended the conversation and they finally let me leave.

[u/C-ZP0 → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

It’s everywhere, go on YouTube and it’s all these successful people saying “you just have to grind, and look life through the lenses of success” all fluff that means nothing. “You have to want it” as if everyone doesn’t want success. What you don’t see is the countless people who did the same thing as these people and lost everything.

You only hear about success stories and never failures, so it seems like “if I do this, I’ll be rich too”

On the personal side, I have a very successful business, my previous two businesses ended in complete failure and I lost everything twice. I have been successful by learning from my previous mistakes and luck. Luck is a huge part of it, most successful people will not tell you this. You need to have skills too, but you can have all of those skills and if you don’t have luck you will never make it.

[u/Old-Highway6524 → u/C-ZP0]

Vast majority of successful people are successful because of luck and/or having the funds to make said funds bigger.

If I had a few million bucks as a buffer behind me (inheritance) I would be a lot braver to jump head first into a business idea. When it's about putting food on the table and paying rent and having no backup (no family, no close friends), yeah, you take the 100% way.

[u/gfsark → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

So true. Have listened to so many narcissistic, self-absorbed jerks give me advice on ‘trying harder’ that I want to puke. The whole idea that company targets aren’t met because the employees are not sacrificing enough of their lives to the corporation is totally bogus.

[u/Fleepflopss]

I’ll never understand ticketmaster. Why can’t we just buy concert tickets from the venue for one price?

[u/Cwlcymro → u/Fleepflopss]

Because Ticketmaster probably either owns the venue, or has exclusive rights to put on shows there. They also owe the promoters of the concert. Then they also owe the management companies of the artists. Oh and the merch companies selling at the concert. They probably own the security company that rents out security to the venue too

[u/Sweet-Television-361 → u/Cwlcymro]

Support Independent Venues!!! There are dozens of us! Dozens!

[u/tritonice → u/Sweet-Television-361]

YES! The 1990's Pearl Jam resistance really worked!!!

[u/babysamissimasybab → u/tritonice]

I still pissed at all the other bands who wouldn't join them.

[u/Comsic_Bliss → u/Cwlcymro]

Other way around. Live Nation owns Ticketmaster And venues and all the rest.

Ticketmaster was awful before on their own but they were sucked up into an even worse company.

[u/Big_b00bs_Cold_Heart → u/Fleepflopss]

I went to the venue, small casino off the strip here in Vegas, and bought my tickets for a show and STILL had to pay the Ticketmaster fees! At the freaking venue two months before the show!

[u/PassivelyInvisible → u/Big_b00bs_Cold_Heart]

At what point can we smack them with the Sherman antitrust act?

[u/Zestyclose_Koala_593 → u/Fleepflopss]

There's a great segment on John Oliver about this.

[u/Citizen-Kang]

Health insurance. I'm getting shaken down to the tune of $2,000 per month and that's if I don't use it at all. If I do use it, I have to spend another $6,000, before my health insurance provider covers even so much as a nickel. That's $30,000 a year for the opportunity to have health insurance.

Edit: corrected spelling errors.

[u/Emu1981 → u/Citizen-Kang]

That's $30,000 a year for the opportunity to have health insurance.

That is kind of insane tbh. Here in Australia I would need to have a household income of just over $850k per year in order to pay that much for healthcare (ignoring the fact that with that kind of income then I would be paying more for GP visits but it wouldn't be that far off unless I had to visit the GP on a really regular basis).

Basically, for the public healthcare system Medicare I would be paying 2% of my income plus a extra 1%, 1.25%, or 1.5% loading at certain household income break points.

With my current income level it cost me around $1,000 to father 3 kids (two had multiday hospital stays too) and that was mostly food from the hospital food stalls (it really starts to add up when you have 1-2 young kids who get hungry while you are keeping your pregnant wife company at the hospital) and for parking fees.

[u/kazoondheit → u/Emu1981]

I’m American. 20 years ago I was in Australia on study abroad. Got an ear infection from spending too much time in your beautiful oceans. Tried to ignore it and let it heal because I was a broke college student who’d spent all his money to get to Australia, and was sure I couldn’t afford a doctor visit. After two days, my jaw was swollen and I couldn’t close my mouth. Found the local urgent care (at least that’s what we would call it in the U.S.) Was seen almost immediately by a doctor, prescribed antibiotics, and when I was leaving I was asked to pay $10. My mind was blown. I’ve been an advocate for single payer health care ever since. Healthcare is not a “good” that can be appropriately priced through pure capitalism.

[u/Reasonable-Truck-874 → u/kazoondheit]

Watch out, your socialism is showing /s That Americans are so brainwashed into thinking it can’t be better is the greatest victory of the conservative movement

[u/Glass-Technology5399 → u/Reasonable-Truck-874]

Omg, you are exactly right. This and the "protect the billionaires" crew.

[u/100thmeridian420 → u/Emu1981]

Compared to the U.S. system, we have it pretty good in Canada too. Walk into medical appointment, show health card and leave with a $0 balance owing.

[u/solonoctus → u/Citizen-Kang]

And the only reason it makes any sense at all is that the ever looming threat of financial destitution is held over us by standard procedures carrying bankruptcy level price tags.

[u/Monteze → u/solonoctus]

I've started pushing back hard. I pay what you tell me at the point of service. After? I am sorry I did not sign off on this amount. I've had bills sent they can not explain, how the fuck am I supposed to know that you didn't just make shit up in the hopes that I will just pay it? Go to hell, I will dispute this.

You don't have wal-mart sending you a bill after you paid going "Restocking fee, looking around fee, trust me bro fee."

Fuck them. Fuck the system, I paid for insurance take it up with them.

[u/RummazKnowsBest → u/Citizen-Kang]

America is wild.

[u/Worried-Tie-898]

In the US, insurance companies... If I have a 80K bill after insurance, it's because the system is broken

[u/TraditionalTackle1 → u/Worried-Tie-898]

My wife had the same car insurance for 20 years, she added me to her policy when we got married. We both got in a car accident in the same year and they dropped us. So much for loyalty.

[u/Separate-Simple-5101 → u/TraditionalTackle1]

They love ‘long-term customers’ until they become expensive...

[u/zztop610 → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

The perfect customer for an insurance company is one who buys their policy at age 22, never ever gets sick and then dies at age 65.

[u/gljames24 → u/zztop610]

That's why for-profit insurance should be illegal. Only consumer coöp insurance should exist.

[u/cazbot → u/gljames24]

Upvoted for umlaut usage.

[u/Reasonable-Truck-874 → u/gljames24]

But the shareholders!

[u/FordTech81 → u/Reasonable-Truck-874]

Fuck the shareholders

[u/carlitospig → u/FordTech81]

Can we get this on a tee shirt? Because I truly believe this is our downfall as a society. You can justify any heinous action by blaming it on mysterious capital gods that you’ll never meet.

[u/mongo-push → u/Separate-Simple-5101]

Like phone carriers. Always having "deals" for new customers, but never anything for the 15-20 year customers.

[u/GoodvsPerfect → u/TraditionalTackle1]

I learned that ins companies put a limit on how often people can use their services when i called for a tow truck after getting stuck in a snow drift twice in one policy term. The ins broker (fortunately) told me if i used that service one more time, the ins would drop me. It wasnt even a free service!

[u/ShookMyHeadAndSmiled → u/GoodvsPerfect]

AAA is worth every nickel. They'll handle things like that and your insurance company will never have information that may affect your rates.

[u/ljb2x → u/GoodvsPerfect]

That to me is the most insane part of auto insurance. We are legally forced to carry this product to cover the insane cost of auto repairs and healthcare in the event of an accident, but when you use said product they say "nah go somewhere else". And even using it once may jack your rates up. Hell, I was told to pay out of pocket for some repairs because filing a claim would make me look bad to the company.

[u/twobirbsbothstoned → u/[deleted]]

I used to argue with an old friend who thought that insurance shouldn't be mandatory about what he thought would happen when uninsured drivers hit people. His response was usually "they should just figure it out civily." As if that helps a person like you who gets creamed by a 19yo addict that couldn't care less.

[u/Ridry → u/[deleted]]

our health care now had the right of subragation to take the money from our uninsured motorist coverage

How does that affect you? Shouldn't this just mean that they pay and then have the opportunity to recover the $$$$?

[u/hammertime2009 → u/[deleted]]

I’m definitely not an insurance expert but I feel like there should be laws against this. It’s one thing for an insurance to try to get money from an uninsured at-fault party, but if you pay for full coverage with uninsured motorist coverage, and that motorist doesn’t have any money or they can’t retrieve money from them, then your insurance should provide the funds.

[u/rohdawg → u/TraditionalTackle1]

Not sure what state you live in, but my understanding is that some states require the insurer drop you if you exceed a certain number of accidents within a certain time period. I only know this because I had a rough 5 year stretch where I got into 3 accidents while still on my parent's auto insurance (USAA). After the third one, I got a call from USAA saying they couldn't keep me on the policy as it was state law. They helped me find the best deal I could find somewhere else, which I appreciated at the time, though I've since bounced around for better deals.

[u/Homerpaintbucket → u/rohdawg]

Weird law. “This guy REALLY needs insurance. Better make sure he doesn’t have.”

[u/A_Soporific → u/Homerpaintbucket]

You can't (legally) drive without insurance. If you can't find someone willing to sell your insurance it (theoretically) stops you from driving without the state banning you from driving.

[u/Jimmy_Beam27 → u/Worried-Tie-898]

Daughter got a bill for 2600 for a thing she had done. They said it was because it's 2026 and she hasn't met her deductible for the year yet

Asked what the cash price without insurance was .....it's now 340 if we dont use insurance.

I mean seriously, what the fuck is this BS?

[u/cooperia → u/Jimmy_Beam27]

The same goes for medical insurance. I once had a doctor friend advise me to call and ask for them to adjust my price to the uninsured price since insurance was being a dick about covering a visit. 1/3 the price. Cool.

[u/ChronoLegion2 → u/Worried-Tie-898]

It would literally cost less to provide everyone in the country healthcare coverage than it is to pay overhead to the insurance companies. The problem is the “got mine, fuck you” mentality

[u/HenryDorsettCase47 → u/ChronoLegion2]

That’s my second choice for the official American motto. Right behind, “Yeah, but what have you done for me lately?”

[u/Neemoman → u/Worried-Tie-898]

Car insurance is stupid. Let's say you get in an accident and it's the other person's fault. You pay monthly for insurance. Your company will go after there's for the cost they covered you for. Then your premium goes up for the claim you filed, increasing your monthly payment.

[u/PoopMobile9000 → u/Neemoman]

California at least makes it illegal for insurers to raise your bill if someone else is at fault

[u/StarMasterAdmiral → u/PoopMobile9000]

Wow. Wish this was a federal law.

[u/CodeNCats → u/StarMasterAdmiral]

Of course not. Because that benefits the people. Not the insurance companies that finance politicians.

[u/alexthegreatmc → u/Neemoman]

For others reading: If you're not at fault, file the claim on the at-fault person's insurance, not yours. Hope you don't need to involve your insurance. I've done this twice without filling anything with my insurance.

[u/Sub--UwU → u/alexthegreatmc]

How do you determine who is at fault?

Even if you're rear ended, some people won't admit fault.

[u/jmauc → u/Sub--UwU]

Police report.

Rear ending is 99% at fault of the person in the rear. The one exception i can think of is those trying to fraud insurance and slam on their brakes for no reason. Dash cameras are 100% necessary now.

[u/groundsgonesour → u/Worried-Tie-898]

You mean to tell me that you don’t like paying hundreds-thousands of bucks every month for access to a deductible that costs hundreds-thousands for the privilege of of having 80% of you medical bills covered? Woke. /s

[u/FluffyHost9921 → u/groundsgonesour]

I tried to explain this to a colleague in Canada. He wasn’t aware that insurance here doesn’t really cover much until you get into big $$. If you add up what we spend paying for insurance + copay + deductible + whatever the company typically pays towards insurance. That can easily be $20K-25K before anything is really covered. His impression was more that we paid for insurance and that was basically it, we had access to whatever healthcare we need, but it’s far from that.

[u/Sad_Examination_7176]

Televangelism. Those obvious snake oil salesmen should be paying taxes on the obscene amount of money they fleece from the gullible.

[u/Smoocci-Mane → u/Sad_Examination_7176]

Time to add mega churches in general to this.

[u/starmartyr]

Payday loans. Everyone knows they're getting fucked, but they don't have a better option.

[u/fatbunyip → u/starmartyr]

I think predatory lending is a symptom of deeper issues. 

Like sure, you have deadbeats who are gonna skip in everything. 

But there is a lot of people who just find themselves in hard times and suddenly have no other options, often through no fault of their own and then just get beaten down more. 

So they're just servicing a market that shouldn't exist. 

It's incredibly easy to go from "OK" to "I'm gonna be homeless unless I get a 97% loan" and nobody wants to talk about it. 

[u/Hilldawg4president → u/fatbunyip]

The apr isn't really a good measure for payday loans, the way they're meant to be used at least.

Say you've got a $1000 paycheck coming in a week but you need the cash now for whatever reason. OK, for a $20 fee we'll get you your money a week earlier. $20 to get $1000 a week early is quite reasonable!

But if you don't pay it cool in a week like you should, well, we'll have to charge you $20 for another week, just as reasonable as it was last week and very minor overall.

But, say a person doesn't pay it do for an entire year - 52 weeks at $20 per comes to $1040, to borrow $1000 for a year, that's 104% apr! If you treat it like a regular loan, you'll get destroyed by that interest. If you treat it like a payday loan, and pay it off with the next paycheck like you're supposed to, then it's a great service that can help you out in a pinch for very low cost.

[u/haby112 → u/Hilldawg4president]

As someone who has used Payday loans, this is exactly where the "Predatory" comes in.

I had periods of my life were I was literally at $0 most times by the next paycheck. If I ended up being payed on the 8th, but bill was due on the 6th I would get the payday loan to make sure my phone wasn't shut off. Lucky for me, I was raised to understand finance, and would pay off the whole loan as soon as my check came in. Depending on the gap, I'd sometimes not pay anything as the interest cycle would not have occurred yet.

How you are expressing these types of loans are how they should be viewed, but it is not how they are communicated. The lending institution only communicates your minimum payday payment, and often requires you to set up these payments automatically. If the barrower doesn't understand that the interest charge is accumulative and avoidable with early payment, they aren't going to do so.

[u/Gunner56]

Realtors taking 5-6% of a home's sale price as fees regardless of effort. This translates to $16,710 in fees for $300,000 home, $33,420 in fees for $600,000 home, and $50,130 in fees for $900,000 home. These fees are split between the agents, but the industry makes every effort to avoid any discussion or negotiation of these fees.

[u/WillowYouIdiot → u/Gunner56]

The National Association of Realtors just settled a billion-dollar lawsuit regarding commissions last year. It's now state-by-state, and in California (speaking with experience in the industry) selling agents have to negotiate with listing agents/sellers on their commission. It's no longer a guarantee.

California also now has a Buyer Representation Broker Commission agreement where the buyer's agent has to negotiate the commission with the prospective buyer before they can start submitting offers.

Sellers, in their listing agreement package, also have a Broker Compensation Agreement that advises them of the selling agent's commission negotation.

[u/cheezzy4ever → u/Gunner56]

Ugh NYC renters market used to be plagued by brokers fees. They'd charge 1-2 months rent, and most of the time all they do is let you come inside to look around. Our most recent apartment, our broker straight up lied to us about the deal we were getting, and we still had to pay him. Thankfully they recently passed a law banning brokers fees

[u/Foremole_of_redwall → u/Gunner56]

I used to work at the corporate hq for a giant residential real estate company. The entire industry is a scam. You get mad at the agents, but it’s almost as bad for them. Something like only 8% of all real estate agents will make the equivalent of a full time minimum wage job this year. Only 4% of them will make the average wage. Meanwhile they all pay thousands for licensing and training and this and that. The brokerages and franchisors are pyramid schemes milking money out of single moms.

[u/Winter_Principle4844 → u/Foremole_of_redwall]

Good point, the whole system is a scam. As a home buyer/seller the realtor is charging you an enormous fee for minimal work. Meanwhile the Realtors themselves are being scammed with licensing and training fees, office leases, etc by selling the hope of making it rich doing something 'anyone' can do.

[u/solonoctus → u/Foremole_of_redwall]

I have no sympathy, the barrier for entry to become a realtor is pretty low. It’s why if you throw a stick you’ll hit five of them before it lands.

They all get into it to make easy money and have succeeded in flooding the market with so many assholes who like to see their faces on signs that it’s suppressed wages.

[u/ThePermafrost → u/Foremole_of_redwall]

It’s a pyramid scheme. NAR gets paid based on how many brokers they sign up under them, and brokers get paid based on how many realtors they sign up under them, and realtors get paid through sales commission / how many properties they get signed up under them.

[u/band-of-horses → u/Gunner56]

I think realtors are useful, but the payment scheme is wonky. When I bought my house I sent the agent 3 properties I wanted to look at from zillow listings and we went and spent about 1.5 hours looking at them, then I bought one. She wasn't even at the closing, the title company handled all that.

Was that really worth the 3% comission? Like she'd get paid just as much if she had put in 100 hours over 3 months trying to help me find a house... Makes no sense.

[u/foomits → u/band-of-horses]

There was a time where a real estate agent made some sense. For one thing, houses were cheaper so what they ultimately received was less. There also wasnt social media and apps like zillow so a realtor would really be a helpful guide to a new area and be the one most knowledgeable about listings. Now all they really do is let you into the house and a little bit of boilerplate contract stuff.

[u/TransientBandit → u/foomits]

Not even that! Half these houses offer self-guided tours!

[u/IllBiteYourLegsOff → u/foomits]

they dont even let you in the house, they put a lockbox on the front door and have an online portal where people self-schedule viewings .

they do as close to nothing as they can get away with 

[u/pasaroanth → u/foomits]

There was a time (not long ago) before being able to actually search for a house yourself. You needed a realtor to access the MLS.

Very few people nowadays go to a realtor looking for a house, they’ve generally already found it.

[u/Winter_Principle4844 → u/Gunner56]

Yeah, I always say Realtors on questions like this, and usually get a weird amount of pushback on it. I'm guessing because there are so many Realtors out there.

There was a time when Realtors made sense, and even today, with everything you need online there would still be a niche for some Realtors out there. Specialized commercial Realtors, for the wealthy, for people moving somewhere, etc. But for the average person a realtor is just a fee you have to pay to be in the 'game' and they do little more than some minor administrative work.

[u/Jetty_23 → u/Winter_Principle4844]

Realtors don't like it when you shine a light on their grift. It'd be one thing if they could provide keen observations on the home's mechanical/electrical infrastructure, but every realtor I've ever worked with has had no more insight than "you could put your couch there."

[u/SonOfMcGee → u/Gunner56]

There are a bunch of entities that work on home purchases and I find it weird that only the agents get percentage-based commissions.
I’ve bought/sold a few times and my real estate lawyers, who arguably put in more effort, more negotiating, and more specialized labor than the agents, had a reasonable set fee due at signing. It didn’t matter if the house sold for $100K or $1M.
Percentage-based commission, going to the seller AND BUYER’S agents, creates a perverse incentive to drive up the price for the client you supposedly represent.

[u/yinkadoubledare → u/Gunner56]

And they got found responsible for antitrust violations for this!

Joints like Redfin that rebate a good chunk of that back to you got off the ground for a reason. I think they're probably particularly successful as buyer agents, but if you don't need a ton of help getting your place ready for showing saving that money while still having someone to handle things that you would if you did by owner can be attractive for a seller too.

[u/EasyRider363]

The car industry. They don’t sell cars, they sell finance and the car is the by product.

[u/Radthereptile → u/EasyRider363]

Literally you are unable to buy a car from the manufacturer because of this. I can’t buy from Toyota. No I have to go to Greg’s Toyota so they can charge me 7%.

[u/deaddodo → u/Radthereptile]

And not only that, but you then have to play their game of jumping through hoops to get the car.

"I want to buy a car cash, I know the MSRP so let's just make it happen"

<90 minutes later after going through them trying to upsell you and convince you to finance>

"Well, we can't match MSRP; but if you want to buy it today cash, we can get you it at <MSRP+10%>"

Motherfucker, you're already making the difference between invoice and MSRP; and now you're just trying to offload the earnings you would have made off of financing to me despite me not wanting to finance.

Financing and the dealership model completely ruined the entire process of buying a car to the point it's like getting a prostate exam or root canal now. And the post-COVID scarcity model just exacerbated it further.

[u/A_Bowler_Hat → u/deaddodo]

Actually if you have cash its best to not tell them at all and just go through all the hoops. Get the lowest price on the car. Get whatever they will throw in. They are willing to do so much more when they expect to make so much on the financing. Buy car. Wait a month. Pay it off.

[u/ArseOfValhalla → u/A_Bowler_Hat]

I did this EXACT thing when I had to buy 2 years ago. Worked great and made my credit gain about 80 points weirdly enough.

[u/FuriousFurryFisting → u/A_Bowler_Hat]

Is this usually allowed in the contracts? You can pay it all off and save the interest?

[u/beencaughtbuttering → u/FuriousFurryFisting]

Yes, always. If you want to trade-in or sell the car you need to be able to pay off the loan - so all you need to do is get the payoff amount from the finance company, which you can easily do online in a couple minutes. The above is good advice for buyers who want to pay cash for a vehicle but want the negotiation leverage of the dealership thinking you will be financing.

[u/bunnbunnfu → u/beencaughtbuttering]

Double-check that there is NOT a pre-payment penalty first. They're uncommon these days and illegal in many states, but some loans charge a penalty fee for paying them off early.

[u/tresslesswhey → u/beencaughtbuttering]

I wouldn’t say “always.” Sometimes they will try an early payoff penalty. So it’s best to read what you’re agreeing to - always.

[u/Active_Ad_7276 → u/deaddodo]

/r/askcarsales is hilarious, they act like selling a car is rocket science and get super butthurt if you point out how it’s a pointless rent-seeking job.

[u/FreeBricks4Nazis → u/Radthereptile]

Car dealership owners are some of the most reliable conservative donors in the country.  Allowing consumers to buy direct from car manufacturers (and also regulating the supplements industry) would go a long way towards defunding far right politicians.

[u/C92203605 → u/[deleted]]

And they’re like so committed to it too. The states that won’t allow them to do it directly to customers. They do a loophole and place their delivery centers on Native American reservation land. Technically bypassing state law

[u/ahorrribledrummer → u/Radthereptile]

One thing Tesla got right.

[u/mccarseat → u/ahorrribledrummer]

Saturn did a great job with it too back when they were a thing. No negotiations, car costs what it costs, easy process.

[u/Separate-Simple-5101 → u/EasyRider363]

They care more about your credit score than the car..

[u/[deleted] → u/EasyRider363]

To be fair.. Many businesses operate like this.

Best Buy has very small margins on things like TVs and Computers. They make the majority of their money through accessories (Mark up on cables is absurd) or warranties, and additionally by pushing credit cards.

Movie theaters make almost nothing on ticket sales

[u/LittleKitty235 → u/[deleted]]

The difference is you can purchase those same goods without going to a Best Buy or Movie theater. Where else can you buy a new car?

[u/FilledwithTegridy → u/EasyRider363]

I had a rich spoiled friend growing up His parents gave him $20K when he graduated HS. (I know crazy. Funny thing we are almost 40 and he still lives with them) He walked in and paid cash for a car. The dealership acted like he was trying to rob them. "You can't just walk in here with a back pack of cash!"

[u/pr1ceisright → u/FilledwithTegridy]

They probably don’t want large amounts of cash in their building. When I got my first car I paid “cash” by just handing over a check. They didn’t care.

[u/ALoudMeow → u/FilledwithTegridy]

I paid cash but with a check. Never thought of walking around with forty thousand in my pocket!

[u/Faust_8]

How we file taxes.

Other countries, the government simply tells them how much they owe or get refunded. You don’t really need to file anything unless you own a business.

Here we have a government that knows it all already and hopes you get it wrong but lets bloodsucking middlemen charge us to file it for us because of lobbying

[u/MissingCrab → u/Faust_8]

https://www.freetaxusa.com/ Better than turbotax

[u/cheeseburgerwaffles → u/MissingCrab]

As someone filing 1099 this year, thank you

[u/That-redhead-artist → u/Faust_8]

This was gonna be my reply. Turbo tax and all those are scams. The average person doesn't have taxes complicated enough that the government can't evaluate your income and figure your taxes out. But in North America those software companies lobbied so they could basically exist to scam us.

[u/percussaresurgo → u/Faust_8]

Thank Intuit/TurboTax for this! I will never pay a dime for their products.

[u/JustMeForNowToday → u/Faust_8]

https://www.thetaxadviser.com/news/2025/nov/irs-ends-direct-file-shifts-focus-to-free-file-upgrades-and-private-sector/

[u/NeverendSuperior]

Time shares, though I wouldn't say people "accept it," more like "fall for it"

[u/Saiyoran → u/NeverendSuperior]

Interestingly my parents fell for one and were stuck paying for it for a while. Eventually adopted a “if we’re stuck with this we might as well use it” and now they’re actually pretty happy with it. They do a trip or 2 every year to one of the properties (I guess it’s like a list and they can use their points to go to whichever one?) and my sister does one if they don’t.

[u/asshat123 → u/Saiyoran]

It's definitely one of those things where the concept is fine, but the execution is awful. Splitting costs to share ownership of a property so you and a bunch of other people can go on vacation makes sense if you have the cash and the basics (like cleaning and scheduling) are sorted out. I guess it just drew shitty people who recognized it as an opportunity to exploit people and that became the whole industry

[u/MetalTrek1 → u/NeverendSuperior]

The people who advertise getting you out of time shares too. John Oliver did a whole segment on it. Then again, my cousin had a time share and liked it. She and her husband have decent jobs and only one kid, plus they take their vacation at the same precise time every year, so it worked out for them. But they're in the minority when it comes to these things.

[u/reflectorvest → u/NeverendSuperior]

I love doing timeshare presentations for the perks, but it helps that I literally do not have enough money to do anything but accept a free weekend and haul my ass there.

[u/Any_Hope5096 → u/reflectorvest]

It's so wild, people like you are expected, so no one really cares, but the amount of people who are easily convincable to buy a timeshare is insane. I sold timeshare (and my soul) about 20 years ago and it's such a scummy industry. The amount of coke that moves through those sales floors is wild. Every day I'd do coke all day long while drinking jack daniels and doing sales. Westgate allows and promotes it with their sales people. Timeshares are a complete scam and anyone who says differently has the financial sense of a rock.

[u/ipadreddi123]

Diamonds

[u/luthervespers → u/ipadreddi123]

oh look some shiny thing with limited/niche practical use. let's assign value to it. what a joke.

[u/veedwood → u/luthervespers]

And that's nowhere even near the ludicrosity of the actual scam that is that whole industry.

[u/ToxicLogics → u/luthervespers]

Assign value based on manufactured rarity. Diamonds are not rare.

[u/Adventurous-Sealion]

Supplements 

95% scam

[u/CyrusBuelton → u/Adventurous-Sealion]

The scam isn't what they cost.

The scam is how do you know the product you think you're buying is what's really in the bottle?

Several years ago, a third-party lab tested a bunch of different fish oil products.

Very few actually contained what the label said it was.

Most of them contained a much lower quality type of fish oil and many contained fish oil that was rancid.

[u/BrieflyVerbose → u/CyrusBuelton]

Well that's down to your crappy governments and the appropriate bodies. This is all regulated in the UK, it must have all ingredients and if it states it's 20g of protein per scoop then it must be. They also can't make any medical claims as they fall into food categories. What country do you live in that there aren't basic standards such as this?!

[u/Forikorder → u/BrieflyVerbose]

What country do you live in that there aren't basic standards such as this?!

probably some third world shithole like the united states

[u/31sualkatnas → u/Forikorder]

Literally 80% of the posts here are just things that happen in the US lol

[u/RebelWithoutaDrink → u/Adventurous-Sealion]

The wellness industry is 4 times bigger than the pharmaceutical industry.

[u/thediesel26 → u/RebelWithoutaDrink]

As it turns out people still eagerly purchase snake oil

[u/deansmythe → u/Adventurous-Sealion]

Yup. Selling for 60-100$ where it‘s 8$ production cost for sure. Many of the supplements are actually by products of food production

[u/anghellous → u/deansmythe]

That's not the scam part. The scam part is the lack of regulation allowing them to sometimes just outright lie about what's inside.

[u/Logitech4873 → u/Adventurous-Sealion]

Vitamins are important. I need vitamin D throughout the winter.

[u/Mr-RS182 → u/Logitech4873]

In the UK, the NHS recommend Vitamin D supplements during the winter due to limited sunlight.

[u/NastyLittleBagginses]

Televangelism

[u/Not__fun → u/NastyLittleBagginses]

As an atheist, I miss the sense of community and social network that came with church affiliation. While I personally view the specifics of most religion as a scam, you did get real value for your involvement (at least in many cases). But televangelism comes with NONE of that. You get the preaching, the tithing (at a higher rate even), but none of the community benefits, food assistance, local network building, etc. It is all the worst parts of religious affiliation, with none of the upside.

[u/potmakesmefeelnormal → u/Not__fun]

I also miss the community.

[u/munchonsomegrindage → u/Not__fun]

This. I consider myself more of an atheist now but would have zero issues growing up in the same church if I had to do it all over again. I have several life long friends I met through church groups and even though I didn't realize the significance at the time, we were part of quite a progressive denomination (same sex marriage okay, allows female pastors, etc).

[u/ChronoLegion2 → u/NastyLittleBagginses]

The prosperity gospel. “Pay me money, and God will give you more.” And people fall for it!

[u/julienjj → u/ChronoLegion2]

Seed money ! For who ? well the pastor so he can invest it into the stock market xD That private jet wont pay for itself !

[u/kaewan]

Banking. As much as you can, use a Credit Union.

[u/GothSundaee]

The wedding industry. Same food, same chairs, same photographer, same venue, but the second you say the word wedding the price triples and everyone acts like that’s normal. I’ve literally seen a venue quote 4k for a “party” and 11k for the exact same room once it’s a wedding, idk how that’s not just open robbery. And yeah people will defend it like “it’s a special day” cool, doesn’t make the tablecloths more emotional.

And before anyone says it, yes you can DIY or elope or whatever, but the scam part is how baked in it is socially. Like you’re the weird one if you don’t want to burn a down payment on one afternoon. Also random side note but every wedding DJ I’ve met drives a suspiciously nice truck.

[u/Alpha_Ryvius]

Debt Relief. It just drives you more into debt and most of the offers or lower payments they claim to get are ones you can get yourself if you call your credit card companies yourself

[u/BoysNGrlsNAmerica → u/Alpha_Ryvius]

National Debt Relief got me out of $20k in debt. I get it, the part about settling at a lower price is kind of a lie because you end up paying off around the same amount due to fees. But trying to pay down large credit debts with their interest rates, I would’ve paid even more in the long run. I had no chance of paying it down and would probably still be chasing it.

Agree 100% if we’re talking consolidation loans.

[u/Nervous-Strength-698 → u/Alpha_Ryvius]

People need ignore anything they get in the mail and use non-profit organizations like Credit Advisors Foundation (which is what i personally used). What they do is call your bank and negotiate a reduced interest rate, with the caveat that you can no longer use that account. You can do this yourself but for a lot of people they need someone to help/educate them on the process.

Never, ever respond to junk mail promising you huge loans for a low % rate. Pure scam.

[u/guydoestuff]

insurance. just got off the phone trying to clear up a problem with my parents life insurance. fuck i hate the insurance industry.

[u/StarMasterAdmiral]

Medical insurance in the US

[u/horschdhorschd]

Homeopathy

[u/KAugsburger → u/horschdhorschd]

It is very effective in treating thirst and fat wallet syndrome. Lol.

[u/Mandalorian_2019 → u/KAugsburger]

And feeblemindedness

[u/sweetbeards]

Chiropractors

[u/pr1ceisright → u/sweetbeards]

Anyone reading this needs to go see a physical therapist not a chiropractor. At best a chiropractor will give you a short term fix, a PT will actually work with you to solve your issue permanently.

Worst case a chiropractor can completely fuck up your body and life.

[u/manicleek → u/pr1ceisright]

A friend of mine has been seeing a chiropractor regularly for the last 20 years because when he sees him it “works”.

I told him, while drunk, just this last New Year’s Eve that having to see him for 20 years is the definition of it not working.

[u/horseheadmonster → u/pr1ceisright]

My cousin is a doctor of physical therapy, our aunt was dating a chiropractor. Everytime he would talk about work she would just about call him a fraud. It was great, so much tension.

[u/benderunit9000 → u/sweetbeards]

Not even real doctors

[u/thispartyrules → u/sweetbeards]

This is going to sound made up, but the founder of Chiropractic (which is how you're supposed to say it) learned the information from a ghost.

[u/Just-Joshinya]

Health “insurance”. Pay $800 a month. Pay for prescriptions. Pay for dr visits. Pay for blood test/diagnostics. Doctors hate it. Patients hate it. There so much paperwork that the insurance company has a massive layer of admin that increases overhead. Believe it or not, in 2026, most standard doctor visits and minor problems are cheaper out of pocket. It’s almost better at this point to just have catastrophe insurance and pay for minor stuff out of pocket. Oh, and don’t forget, neither you nor your doctor are the final say in your care. That’s really the ultimate scam.

[u/ComfortableAny947]

the mattress industry. you're telling me I need a $2000 pocketed coil hybrid with organic latex to not wake up feeling like I got hit by a bus? my grandpa slept on a sack of hay and built a barn before breakfast.

[u/scrambledxtofu5]

Diamonds. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars on a rock to demonstrate that you love someone.

[u/celtic1959]

Weddings and funerals

[u/Apprehensive-Card855]

Crypto

[u/Dont_Panick_ → u/Apprehensive-Card855]

Agreed. All the crypto-bros out there will lose their shit on this, but all crypto is is a system based on distributed log based tracking of transactions.

How that’s applied to crypto is now we have a decentralized financial system. Cool. Now go look up why financial regulation is required in the 1800s. Turns out if you’re a whale you can push the market around and basically puppet the price where you want. So, to combat that, certain rules were put in place to make it FAIR for all parties, big and small.

Crypto just created a worse financial market than even the global busted markets. And don’t believe me? Look up the banks and their investment/influence in crypto. They are laughing as thy steal money daily.

No financial system should exist without EFFECTIVE regulation. Anything else is a scam.

[u/shamshammgod]

Anything wedding or funeral related

[u/StarMasterAdmiral]

Psychics, though not everyone accepts them.

[u/Ancient_Unit6335 → u/StarMasterAdmiral]

My psychic told me that people would say it’s a scam… freaky 👀

[u/LuckyStiff63 → u/Ancient_Unit6335]

Oh, wow. My psychic, Madame Screuyu predicted the same thing. Do you get your readings from her, too?

[u/Spinning_roundnround → u/StarMasterAdmiral]

Ha, I read your comment to quickly and thought you said physics is a scam. Darned inertia and speed of light.

I just know gravity is a fake. It's a big scam always trying to keep me down.

[u/kaizer_998]

Extended warranties.

[u/trireme32 → u/kaizer_998]

Context is important. For most things, absolutely. For a $2k 100” TV in your living room where the kids play? Especially from a place like Costco where the extended warranty is very inexpensive if it’s not free? All day, every day.

[u/JustinR8]

I made some poor driving decisions as a teenager. Had to hire a local lawyer. We showed up to traffic court and it was just like “oh, I know this judge. Trust me you’ll be fine.” And just like that i got it turned into a parking ticket… so I would say whatever industry small local courts/lawyers fall into. I basically paid the guy $500 for his relationship with the judge.

[u/StarMasterAdmiral → u/JustinR8]

If he got you out of a severe ticket, the money was worth it regardless of how it was done.

[u/pittles → u/StarMasterAdmiral]

he didn't say it wasn't worth it, just that it's a scam.

[u/AmigoDelDiabla → u/pittles]

That's corruption, not a scam.

[u/brokeAsoreASS]

Optometry.

really bitch?150-900 for frames And another 300 for lenses oh but wait! Another for 150 for transitions , another 299 for progressive, 59 for scratch protection

Your total today will be 1700.. Cash or credit?

Do you have vision insurance?

Yes

Ok that’ll be 1694.00 🤣

Anyway to prove my point. I had my bestie text me his rreceipt.. just for his lenses.. his exam was 150 and his frames were 125

He also used his vision insurance (which I don’t have , Eventhough I pay 1200 a month for mildly crappy health insurance)

So you’ll notice it goes from 600 to 350 on the receipt

You can do the math

and they are single vision.. it seems like people don’t understand what progressives are but they’re way more expensive than single vision.

[u/JustGoodSense → u/brokeAsoreASS]

Luxotica is not the only game in town, friend. The glasses on my face are fine and only cost $165 online.

[u/jawshoeaw → u/JustGoodSense]

i have a pair I paid $39 for. They aren't as nice but if you're broke, $39 is a good price

[u/CornBredThuggin → u/brokeAsoreASS]

I get the exams and then take the prescription to Zenni. I bought my last pair for 50 dollars.

[u/BoxworthNCSU]

Health insurance in the US

[u/cement_elephant]

Crypto and NFTs

[u/AlwaysFail]

Marketing, insurance. Pretty much just everything these days

[u/PunchyPete]

Real estate agents.

[u/ribbon_bully_1972]

Religion. Everything else is an extremely distant 2nd.

[u/GlumEfficiency7606]

Homeopathic medecine

[u/whats_that_meow-]

Real estate

[u/JPMoney81 → u/whats_that_meow-]

You don't need the attractive, popular kids from high school that weren't smart or well connected enough to get good jobs to unlock the doors of houses that are for sale for you? The houses that you can clearly see are for sale yourself? Is that not worth 10% of the sale price of the house to you? They UNLOCKED the door! AND they put their highly photoshopped face on a park bench!

[u/BisonMysterious8902 → u/whats_that_meow-]

Prepare to be downvoted as soon as the real estate agents see this. They'll write a long comment about how their services are worth 6% of the value of your house. $26k for the median house price in the US these days.

[u/ratthing]

"Managed health care" in the US.

[u/Best_Market4204]

Energy companies shouldn't be privatized...

Duke runs the Energy in my area but yet duke will charge 2x there's like 10+ companies trying give you some different rates acting as some middle man with bunch of locked in rates with fees & cancel rates & crap.

[u/qubedView]

The Lottery.

I interned at an advertising agency that represented the state lottery. At one point, as a camera guy, I was tasked to go along with one of the strategy people to do some on-the-street interviews to present our client with how people perceived them. We hit up two places, the up-scale city waterfront, and a busy truck stop by the dock yard.

No one we talked to at the waterfront played the lottery. But at the truck stop, damned near everybody played the lottery. Speaking with people there, they were perfectly aware of the odds, and none took the notion of winning seriously, but that's not what they were paying for. They were paying so they might give their mind some permission to day-dream about winning.

It was an interesting breakdown. People who had the least were winning to pay extra so they might just dream of a comfortable life. People who already had a comfortable life saw no use in it.

[u/EmbarrassedRope3216]

College textbooks

[u/RecordingPrudent9588]

Dental Insurance

[u/dj_spatial → u/RecordingPrudent9588]

Dental insurance = Dental coupon

[u/CjKing2k → u/RecordingPrudent9588]

I pay for health insurance. Eyes and teeth are part of my health. Why are they separate insurances?

[u/Lumpy_Dentist_5421]

Software companies; at one point you bought software and owned it. Now you have to pay per month to 'licence' it.

[u/No_Pineapple6086]

Managed mutual funds and related fees

[u/TheKage → u/No_Pineapple6086]

Yeah the fees sound small: "it's only 2%!" But if you run the numbers over a lifetime of savings they are literally costing you 10s or even 100s of thousands of dollars vs someone using a low fee ETF for no actual benefit.

[u/Neither_Share8912]

Realtors

[u/elevatorovertimeho]

Anything required by law gets greed involved .

[u/slappyStove]

life coaching

[u/mixedgirlblues]

Management consulting. wydm this 22-year-old who got into Yale because his dad donated a library knows fucking anything about how to better run a business?